The Eat at Joe's K5000 Wav Resynthesis Project
Star Trek Planet Surface Effect
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K5000s and an "interesting" recreation attempt
Saturday, 31-Oct-98 22:33:57
209.66.35.121 writes:
Just picked up a K5000S a week ago from Sam Ash. It certainly is a step above
what I had been using. With enough mixing, I might actually be able to recreate
something I've been trying to do for 10 years.... Star Trek's alien planet surface
effect! This sound was heard in many 60's episodes most notably "The Man Trap" and
"The Cage". The effect was created by mixing an electronic Hammond organ with
winds. I have found that attempting to recreate this sound has been nearly
impossible due to the "richness" of the notes. To listen to a "high fidelity"
recording of the effect, watch "The Paradise Syndrome". So I guess my first
question is, where could I obtain a good Hammond organ patch?
James Kirk
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Re: K5000s and an "interesting" recreation attempt
Sunday, 01-Nov-98 00:46:09
199.199.157.38 writes:
Must be synchronicity; I just finished a (putatively) Hammond organ patch, which
I'll send in.
There's a minute and a half of "Alien Planet Surface" on the Star Trek Original
Series Sound Effects CD, if you can find it. It is one of my favorite ambient
tracks, but maybe that's just nostalgia.
Listening to it now, I hear three or four wind sounds plus tape hiss, plus the
harmonic sound in the background that makes the real character of the track. The
harmonic sound has one more-or-less constant pitch part and one (sometimes two)
higher parts that ramp up and down in pitch. They don't sound so much like an
organ to me, but that could have been the original sound source. They sound
similar to a part of the "beam up" sound. I've heard something very much like it by
messing around with runaway echos having very short delays. (Hmmm--is that granular
synthesis?) Do you know more about where the sound came from?
Here's the patch description:
B3888808: A B3-emulation organ patch with one ADD as drawbars set to 888000000
and a second to 000808000. MW adds in overdrive, but it can sound better
with external distortion and Leslie.
leiter
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Re: Re: K5000s and an "interesting" recreation attempt
Sunday, 01-Nov-98 09:42:29
209.66.35.79 writes:
Yes, I have the sound effects CD. You're correct, a portion of the effect is on
there.. number 9 (I think) on the CD. This was only a 12 second repeating loop of
the effect though. The actual complete loop is about 28 seconds and doesn't have
the highs (similar to the transporter), nor that annoying howling wind sound. I've
tried to remove the wind digitally from the CD, but too much of the effect I'm
seeking is also removed (too much of the wind's spectrum overlaps the effect
tones). To really hear the effect requires watching one of the original episodes.
It can just barely be heard at the END of "The Cage" (not the beginning because
its different), all throughout "The Alternative Factor", and a somewhat "higher
fidelity" recording in "The Paradise Syndrome" (I use that term because some of
the higher notes can be heard, but the noise level is still awful).
The last part of the "beaming up" sound does sound very much like the lower
"alien planet surface" sound. The "beaming up" sound is much steadier though and
all notes are sustained constantly, unlike the aps sound where individual notes are
played at different times. The varying pitch notes are ever present in both effects
though.
Douglas Grindstaff, one of the original Star Trek sound creators/ editors, did in
fact create both the transporter and alien planet surface effects. For the alien
planet surface we are discussing, he used the orchestra and mixed an electronic
Hammond organ with winds. He told me he used a lot of "treating" to get the effect
the way he wanted (echo, reverb, etc.), so that's probably why it doesn't sound
much like an organ. The transporter was the same except different notes and again
"treated". I'm thinking he probably used a B-3 Hammond, since the effects would
have been created around 1964 (although I didn't think organs could be varied in
pitch while playing... maybe this is where the wind instruments came in).
I'll check out and try your patch. I'm new with synthesizers, so it might take me
some time to "tweak" it just right. Would you happen to know of a program which
converts .wav files to the .ka1 format? The trick for me is being able to do this
conversion without having the synth coupled to my computer via the midi cable.
Any programs which will convert this way?
James Kirk
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Re: Re: Re: K5000s and an "interesting" recreation attempt
Sunday, 01-Nov-98 13:10:05
199.199.157.3 writes:
>Would you happen to know of a program which converts .wav files to the .ka1
>format? The trick for me is being able to do this conversion without having the
>synth coupled to my computer via the midi cable. Any programs which will convert
>this way?
The K5k SoundDiver that comes with the synth has an "Import" function that does
some resynthesis. I never got it to work 'til some one pointed out it needs about
a 1 sec .wav of a consistent sound. Even then, it has three different modes that
will give you three different answers. It's good to have, tho.
I'll try to reproduce that echo effect again.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: K5000s and an "interesting" recreation attempt
Sunday, 01-Nov-98 14:00:14
209.66.35.179 writes:
Yes, I've been reading the message board concerning using the K5000. I might be
able to use a 1 sec sample of the a.p.s sound I spoke of earlier. From what I've
read though, SoundDiver doesn't seem to work well with complex tones.... but its
worth a try. In any case, I can always fall back on my Samplitude program, which
has a "convolution" feature that, if used properly, can sometimes produce
extraordinary results.
Good luck at reproducing the aps effect. So far, on the K5000s, I've manipulated
"K-bells" and have been able to simulate the varying portion fairly well. The key
seemed to be long delays for each of the parameters, and an echo effect of 200 mS.
Could probably get even closer using one of the other "algorithms". Then, its just
a matter of varying the "pitch bend" wheel.
Kirk
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: K5000s and an "interesting" recreation attempt
Sunday, 01-Nov-98 16:16:41
199.199.157.45 writes:
I'm getting pretty good results with a delay of about 50 ms. I'm looping the
output of a delay back to the input externally though a mixer channel, riding the
return level, and slowly raising the high frequencies.
leiter
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: K5000s and an "interesting" recreation attempt
Sunday, 01-Nov-98 17:38:09
209.66.32.180 writes:
Right. I found that shorter delay also useful during my experiments with my sound
program. I'll have to try running the output from the K5000 into my soundcard, and
do some further experimenting. I've been holding off on this though because
I'd like to get a Midi card (unfortunately, my current card won't support Midi).
Any suggestions? I've been looking at the new SoundBlaster Live! card with Midi
and digital I/O. Also, I haven't been able to import any wav files using SoundDiver.
I keep getting the message, "unknown file format" and also that the driver is not
enabled. I'm guessing that the K5000 has to be hooked up to the Midi card for the
import function to work.
Kirk
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Re: Re: Re: K5000s and an "interesting" recreation attempt
Sunday, 01-Nov-98 17:05:52
199.199.157.52 writes:
>Douglas Grindstaff, one of the original Star Trek sound creators/ editors, did in
>fact create both the transporter and alien planet surface effects.
The transporter sound and other Trek sounds also show up in a movie called "Women
of the Prehistoric Planet" (1965).
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Re: Re: Re: Re: K5000s and an "interesting" recreation attempt
Sunday, 01-Nov-98 17:44:34
209.66.32.180 writes:
Thanks. I'll have to rent and watch that film! That would be about the time Mr.
Grindstaff started creating and using the effects for Star Trek. Depending on the
type of transporter effect used in the film you mentioned, it might have been
created by Jack Finlay. Jack created the "beam-out" sequence, when the crew was
dematerializing from the transporter pad to the planet. A major portion of this
effect was a Foley type and was a railroad track slid through ice, recorded on
one of the Paramount sound stages.
Kirk
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Re: Re: Re: K5000s and an "interesting" recreation attempt
Monday, 02-Nov-98 07:16:48
194.172.230.108 writes:
Don't expect to get good results from the SoundDiver resynthesis function for
non-tonal/inharmonic sounds! But if you try it, you may use SoundDiver's MIDI
sys-ex file export function, and then apply my SYXTRACT program (for
DOS) to convert it to a .KA1 file.
Jens Groh
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Re: Re: Re: Re: K5000s and an "interesting" recreation attempt
Monday, 02-Nov-98 19:21:07
209.66.35.32 writes:
Thanks. I'll try it. The sound I was planning on using is steady and loaded with
harmonics, so we'll see how it works.
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